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Ednowain ap Bradwen
Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?
Parents and Children of the Lord Rhys

#21 - GWENWYS or CADWGAN WENWYS
 
         Bartrum presents 3 pedigrees under this heading:
 
         (1)  "Madog ap Gwenwys ap Gruffudd ap Beli ap Selyf ap Brochwel ap Aeddan ap Cyngen ap Eliseg"
 
         (2) "Madog ap Cadwgan Wennwys ap Dafydd ap Einion ap Griffri Fychan ap Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli"
 
         (3) "Madog ap Gwenwys ap Einion ap Dafydd ap Roger ap Einion Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli"
 
          His note to the pedigree says:
 
         "Ancestor of one of the Pump Costowglwyth.  Families belonging to his tribe were mostly in the neighborhood of Cegidfa.  Fourth in descent from Gwenwys was Sir Gruffudd Fychan (d. 1447).  The date of birth of Gwenwys must have been about 1270.  He could not, therefore, have been the son of Gruffudd of Cegidfa or of Gwyn ap Gruffudd, but the longer version (#2 above) is consistent with the later date found above for Gwyn ap Gruffudd, namely c. 1160, while (#3 above) points to the earlier date for Gwyn ap Gruffudd, namely c. 1050."
 
PEDIGREE #1:
 
         This is the pedigree of the Gwenwys who was the ancestor of Sir Gruffudd Fychan, but he was born c. 1250, not c. 1270.  His father was Gruffudd IV ap Beli IV ap Selyf IV ap Brochwel IV ap Aeddan IV, this Gruffudd born c. 1215.  Gwenwys was either a brother of Gwyn IV (c. 1250) ap Gruffudd IV, or he was the same man. 
 
          What Bartrum never was able to comprehend is that there were, within this extended family, four men named Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli ap Selyf ap Brochwel ap Aeddan...men born c. 950, 1050, 1150 and 1250.[1]  His charts of the family are in complete disarray as he attempts to connect 4 separate family branches to only 2 men named Gwyn ap Gruffudd...those he dates to 1050 and 1160.[2] 
 
          The top of his pedigree which reads "Cyngen ap Eliseg" omits Brochwel as noted in our discussion of Patriarch #19 and #20.
 
PEDIGREE #2:
 
         This is the pedigree of Cadwgan Wennwys, a wholly different man who was born c. 1285 and descended from Gwyn III ap Gruffudd III of c. 1150.  Like the Gwenwys of c. 1250, he had a son named Madog which may have led to Bartrum thinking they were the same man.  But Cadwgan Wennwys also had sons Gruffudd and Rhiryd[3], while no sons but Madog are known for Gwenwys.
 
PEDIGREE #3:
 
          Found in a single source, this pedigree is merely a corrupt version of #2 and has nothing to recommend it.
 
CONCLUSION:
 
          When one applies strict chronological analysis to the entire Powys Royal Family, and does not assume every citation which mentions a Brochwel ap Aeddan is speaking of the same man, the family charts can be presented without time gaps or marriage matches which seem impossible and thus must be ignored.  Duplicate strings of same-named men occur in many Welsh families, but none moreso than this one.  Virtually all went unnoticed by Bartrum.
 
         The following chart shows the family relationship that exists between Gwenwys and Cadwgan Wennwys:
 
                                       685  Eliseg
                                                 l
                                     715  Brochwel
                                                 l
                                      750  Cyngen
                                                 l
                                      785  Aeddan
                                                 l
                                     820  Brochwel
                                                 l
                                       850  Selyf
                                                 l
                                      880  Aeddon II [4]
                                                 l
                                     910  Brochwel II
                                                 l
                                       945  Selyf II
                                                 l
                                     975  Aeddan III [5]
                                                 l
                                    1005  Brochwel III
                                                 l
                                      1045  Selyf III
                          ______________l____________
                          l                                         l
               1080  Beli III                       1075  Aeddan IV
                          l                                         l
            1115  Gruffudd III                  1110  Brochwel IV
                          l                                         l
              1150  Gwyn III                      1145  Selyf IV
                          l                                         l
         1185  Griffri Fychan                      1180  Beli IV
                          l                                         l
              1215  Einion                       1215  Gruffudd IV
                          l                                         l
              1250  Dafydd                      1250  Gwenwys [6]
                          l
       1285  Cadwgan Wennwys [7]
 
 
NOTES:
[1] See the paper "Powys Dynastic Family 945 - 1385" at the link below:
[2] P.C. Bartrum, "Welsh Genealogies AD300-1400"; chart of Brochwel ap Aeddan on p. 48 and charts labeled Gwyn ap Gruffudd
[3] Dwnn i, 330; Visitation of Shropshire pp 249 and 506
[4] His brother Beli, born c. 855, was the first of a repeating string of same-named men which included Gwyn I ap Gruffudd I of c. 950
[5] His brother Beli II, born c. 980, was the grandfather of the c. 1050 Gwyn II ap Gruffudd II
[6] Ancestor of Sir Gruffudd Fychan (c. 1385) ap Gruffudd (c. 1350) ap Ieuan (c. 1320) ap Madog (c. 1285) ap Gwenwys.  The brother of Gwenwys was Gwyn IV
[7] Ancestor of several families, including Gough of The Marsh in Shropshire