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The Floruit of Einion ap Seisyllt
The 5 Dafydd Llwyds of Llanwrin Parish
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Bradwen of Llys Bradwen in Meirionydd
Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
Sir Aaron ap Rhys
Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?
Ifor Bach, Lord of Senghenydd
Ancestors and Children of the Lord Rhys
                          THE 5 DAFYDD LLWYDS OF LLANWRIN PARISH
                                            By Darrell Wolcott
          Llanwrin Parish in Cyfeiliog was the location of the present town of Machynlleth.  All the lands which Einion ap Seisyll had held in Meirionydd, and which he transferred to Cyfeiliog during the reign of south Powys king, Owain Cyfeiliog [1], were located in this parish.  At his death in the last quarter of the 12th century, Einion's lands were divided between his sons, Gronwy and Seisyll.
          We do not know when the home which Gronwy built was first called "Mathafarn", but his residence was located at the confluence of the Dyfy and Ceirig Rivers. [2] Across the Ceirig, and a bit upstream, Seisyll erected his manor house which, at some unknown time, was named "Aberffrydlan" meaning "up from the mouth of the stream".  That these two families remained close over the next 3 centuries can be seen in the child-naming pattern which began the moment their father, Einion, gave a son his own father's name.  Before the tradition ended with the adoption of surnames early in the 16th century, they produced a string of 12 same-named men, each 2 generations apart, as the younger branch duplicated the sequence of male birth names first used by the senior branch.  A chart of the two families looks like this:
                                    1080  Seisyll ap Ednowain
                                    1110  Einion
                   l                                                               l
     1145  Gronwy  (a)                                          1145  Seisyll
                   l                                                               l
      1175  Tudor  (b)                                                     1175  Einion
                   l                                                               l
    1210  Llewelyn  (c)                                     1210  Gronwy
                   l                                                               l
   1240  Ieuan Llwyd                                       1240  Tudor  (d)   
                   l                                                               l
    1275  Gruffudd  (e)                                     1270  Llewelyn  (f) 
                   l                                                               l
    1305  Llewelyn  (g)                                    1305  Ieuan Llwyd  (h) 
                   l                                                               l
   1335 Dafydd Llwyd  (j)                                 1340  Gruffudd  (k)
                   l                                                               l
       1370 Ieuan                                            1370  Llewelyn  (m) 
                  l                                                                l
      1400  Huw                                          1405  Dafydd Llwyd  (n)
                  l                                                                l
  1430  Dafydd Llwyd, the bard   (p)                  1440  Ieuan  (q) 
                  l                                                                l
     1460  Ieuan  (r)                                           1470  Huw  (s) 
                  l                                                                l
      1490  Huw                                            1505  Dafydd Llwyd
  1525  Dafydd Llwyd
       MATHAFARN FAMILY                           ABERFFRYDLAN FAMILY
          The notes in our chart refer to evidence for our dating estimates; the actual notes are relegated to APPENDIX I so not to interrupt our discussion of the families 

          In the Mathafarn family on the left in our chart, there were 3 men named Dafydd Llwyd, the earliest being Dafydd Llwyd ap Llewelyn ap Gruffudd, and two more named Dafydd Llwyd ap Huw ap Ieuan, each of the latter being the great-grandson of the previous Dafydd Llwyd.  In the Aberffrydlan family, there was a Dafydd Llwyd ap Llewelyn ap Gruffudd and his great-grandson, Dafydd Llwyd ap Huw ap Ieuan.  As one could easily predict, the two families were conflated in all the pedigrees drawn up by the 16th century antiquarians, and this conflation was continued by Peter Bartrum when he published his family charts in the 20th century [3].
         Bartrum's charts actually depict the Aberffrydlan family (and his dating is of that family), which is then given a sprinkling of wives and children which belong to the Mathafarn family. One can see the problem Bartrum was having when he correctly dated his c. 1400 Dafydd Llwyd, but then identified him as the Bard of Mathafarn who, according to his estimate [4] lived from c. 1420-1500.  Our own dating analysis of his wife and daughter yields a birthdate for him closer to 1430.
         Without question, the biggest misinformation which resulted from the pedigree conflation, with respect to the bard, is calling him a son of Llewelyn ap Gruffudd.  There WAS a Dafydd Llwyd ap Llewelyn ap Gruffudd in the ancestry of the bard, but he was the bard's great-grandfather. The bard himself was the son of Huw ap Ieuan ap Dafydd Llwyd ap Llewelyn ap Gruffudd.
         Early in the 1500's, some members of both families adopted the surname "Pugh", an elided "ap Huw".  It was, however, not the same Huw from whom the families took that surname.  Nor was the final Dafydd Llwyd in either family the progenitor of the subsequent Pugh families.  In the Aberffrydlan family, it appears that a brother named Humphrey was the first (and perhaps only) sibling to call himself Pugh. The eldest of his siblings was John, who was styled simply John ap Huw in early pedigrees:
                       1470  Huw ap Ieuan of Aberffrydlan
              l                  l                  l                  l                  l
          John         Maredudd      Richard      Humphrey    Dafydd Llwyd
                           (These siblings were born c. 1500/1510)
          In the Mathafarn family, Rowland was the first (and perhaps only) sibling to call himself Pugh. We are unsure which of these siblings was the eldest:
                          1490  Huw ap Ieuan of Mathafarn
                    l                   l                   l                   l
                John       Rowland Pugh    Richard    Dafydd Llwyd
                     (These siblings were born 1520/1530. We believe they had a base half-brother named Lewys, who became a Vicar [5])
          Virtually all modern sources claim that the above Rowland Pugh was a son of the John ap Huw in the Aberffrydlan family, who many pedigrees incorrectly label "of Mathafarn", a man born c. 1500.  We think there WAS a Rowland, son of the the Mathafarn John ap Huw, born c. 1555, but that it was his uncle Rowland with whom the Pugh of Mathafarn pedigree continues:
          1520  Rowland Pugh, married Elen dau, of Nicholas Pursel; MP 1572, 1588
          1550  Richard Pugh, married Gaynor f. Rhys ap Thomas
          1580  Rowland Pugh, married Elisabeth dau. Sir Richard Price; obit 1644
           1615  John Pugh, married Anna Mostyn; lv 1644
         1645  William Pugh, married Margaret dau. John Lloyd; lv 1711
          1675  John Pugh, barrister, MP 1711

           It is possible that a misreading of a citation found in Peniarth Ms 128, page 832a led to the belief that the first Rowland Pugh was a son of John ap Huw.  At the bottom of that page are 3 statements, one beneath the other, which say:
           "graig John ap Huw, Catryn dau Richard Herbert"
           "graig Roland ap Huw,  dau Pursel" 
           "graig Richard ap Roland, Gaynor Rhys Tomas"
          "Graig" is Welsh for "wife of".  If you choose to read these as father, son and grandson, you would justify that reading by claiming the citation had simply omitted "ap John" from the second line.  We believe the subsequent family timeline requires the citation to be read as written.  The last two names ARE father and son, but the first name is not even a member of the Mathafarn family.  Catryn was born c. 1500, a generation too early to have married the John ap Huw of the Mathafarn family.  We match her with the c. 1500 John ap Huw of the Aberffrydlan family.
         Of the 5 men named Dafydd Llwyd which we have identified in this paper, there is only one about whom we know anything of his life.  Called by historians "the Bard of Mathafarn", he was born c. 1430 in the senior line descended from the first Einion ap Seisyll.  He was a major landowner and had considerable wealth.  In today's money, his net worth would be measured in the tens of millions of U.S. dollars. [6] He wrote poetry, usually of the "heroic" type, as a hobby and was never a "bard" by profession.  Lewys Dwnn called him "Esquire to the Body of King Henry VII". [7]   If such a title was ever used in his lifetime, it was merely honorary in nature.  Dafydd Llwyd was well past middle-aged when he met the future king, and probably was in or near his final decade of life.
         If any readers of this paper are not familiar with the only known instance when Dafydd Llwyd met Henry Tudor, it occurred in 1485 shortly before the Battle of Bosworth.  The future king was en route to England to challenge King Richard III for the crown of England.  That king, and his army, were even then marching west to confront the challenger.  From his place in exile in Brittany, Henry Tudor had recently sailed to Wales, landing in Mill Bay at Milford Haven, a natural port on the southeast coast of Dyfed.  As his entourage made its way across Wales toward England, Henry rested for the night at Mathafarn as the guest of Dafydd Llwyd, one of his many wealthy supporters.
          According to oral tradition, Henry Tudor asked Dafydd Llwyd to forecast his chances of success and to make that forecast the subject of an heroic poem of the type for which he was noted.  As the host retired for the night, he expressed his alarm to his wife about what might happen if his forecast turned out to be wrong.  His wife wisely counselled him to go ahead and predict Henry's glorious victory over Richard III, saying "if you are right, the new king will honor you greatly. If you are wrong, Henry will not be alive to express any disfavor with you."  He took his wife's advice and the resulting poem is one of his most-cited works.

[1]  See the paper "The Floruit of Einion ap Seisyll" at the link below:
[2]  Montgomeryshire Collections, vol 87. page 55
[3]  Peter Bartrum "Welsh Genealogies AD300-1400", Charts Seisyll 1, 2 and 3
[4]  He took this estimate from "The Dictionary of Welsh Biography" page 102 
[5]  The base son is cited in Dwnn i, 296 and 318, both of which conflate the two families.   Pen. 138. 832a, in its opening pedigree, names the sons and daughters of Huw ap Ieuan of Aberffrydlan but does not include a "Lewys".  We suggest he was probably a base son of Huw ap Ieuan of Mathafarn 
[6]  The manor house at Mathafarn alone was sold in 1752 for 33,400 pounds sterling, an era when 1,000 pounds sterling was about $235,000 in today's US dollars
[7]  Dwnn i. 296

APPENDIX I - Dating Notes for Family Chart
       Following are the notes to the first chart presented in the text of this paper:
(a)  Gronwy (1145):  Dwnn i, 299 cites his marriage to Meddefys (1160) ferch Owain Cyfeiliog (1125) ap Gruffudd (1095) ap Maredudd (1065) ap Bleddyn (1025) ap Cynfyn
(b)  Tudor (1175): Dwnn i, 306 cites his marriage to Gwerfyl (1185) ferch Maredudd (1150) ap Uchdryd (1120).  This was Uchdryd, son of Madog Penllyn (1085) ap Uchdryd (1055) ap Edwin of Tegeingl
(c)  Llewelyn (1210): He had a sister, Morfydd (1210), who is cited by Harl 1977, 67 as married to Llywarch (1210) ap Heilyn Gloff (1180) ap Tyfid (1145) ap Tangno (1115) ap Ystrwyth (1080) ap Marchwystl (1050) ap Marchweithian (1015) of Rhufoniog
(d) Tudor (1240): He had a sister, Elen (1245), who is cited by Dwnn i, 39 as married to Llewelyn (1230) ap Tudor (1195) ap Ednowain (1155), but Pen 135, 377 says Llewelyn (1230) ap Tudor (1195) was a son of Gwyn (1160) ap Bradwen (1125).  That Gwyn was a brother of Ednowain (1155) ap Bradwen
(e)  Gruffudd (1275): He had a daughter, Sioned (1310), who is cited by Dwnn i, 309 as married to Ieuan (1300) ap Madog (1270) ap Owain (1240) which Owain was a son of Meurig (1210) ap Pasgen III (1180) ap Gwyn III (1150) of the First Powys Royal Dynasty
(f)  Llewelyn (1270): Dwnn i, 295 cites his marriage to Gwenllian (1275) ferch Llewelyn (1245) ap Hywel (1210) ap Madog (1180) ap Gruffudd (1145) ap Gronwy (1115) ap Gwrgeneu (1085) ap Hoedliw (1055) ap Cadwgan (1020) ap Elystan Glodrydd
(g)  Llewelyn (1305): He had a daughter, Lleuci (1340), who Dwnn i, 31 cites as married to Llewelyn Fychan (1335) ap Llewelyn Goch (1305) ap Llewelyn Caplan (1275) of Anhuniog in Ceredigion
(h)  Ieuan Llwyd (1305): Dwnn i, 296 cites his marriage to Mabli (1320) ferch Philip Fongam (1290) ap Maredudd Benwen (1260) descended from Matthew Hen ap Brochwel III of the First Powys Royal Dynasty
(j)  Dafydd Llwyd (1335): He was the great-grandfather of his namesake, Dafydd Llwyd the bard, and was the only Mathafarn Dafydd Llwyd whose father was named Llewelyn ap Gruffudd
(k)  Gruffudd (1340): Dwnn i, 296 cites his marriage to Arddun (1355) ferch Ieuan (1320) ap Madog (1285) ap Gwenwys (1250) ap Gruffudd IV (1215) ap Beli IV (1180) of the First Powys Royal Dynasty
(m) Llewelyn (1370): Dwnn i, 296 cites his marriage to Goleubryd (1370) ferch Madog (1335) ap Gwilym (1300) ap Iorwerth Llwyd (1265) ap Rhiwallon Fychan (1235) ap Rhiwallon Llwyd (1205) descended from Morgan Hir of Gwent
(n)  Dafydd Llwyd (1405): He had an unnamed daughter (1440) cited by Cardiff 2.36, 149/150 as married to Dafydd (1425) ap Hywel (1390) ap Owain (1350) ap Gruffudd (1315) ap Ieuan (1280) ap Meilyr (1245) descended from Hoedliw ap Cadwgan ap Elystan Glodrydd
(p)  Dafydd Llwyd (1430): He was the noted bard of Mathafarn; Dwnn i, 296 cites his marriage to Marged (1445) ferch Gwilym (1410) ap Llewelyn Fychan (1375) ap Llewelyn (1345) ap Ieuan Fychan (1310) ap Ieuan (1280) ap Rhys (1250) ap Llowdden (1215) descended from Tudwal Gloff
(q)  Ieuan (1440): Pen 128, 832a cites one of his wives as Elisabeth (1450) ferch Jenkin (1420) ap Iorwerth (1385) ap Einion (1355) ap Gruffudd (1325) ap Llewelyn (1295) ap Cynwrig (1265) ap Osbwrn Wyddel (1237)
(r)  Ieuan (1460): He had a sister, Marged (1465), who is cited by Dwnn i, 111 as married to Roger Walcot (1455) son of John Walcot (1425) son of Sir Philip Walcot (1390) descended from Cynddelw Gam
(s)  Huw (1470): Dwnn i, 319 cites his marriage to Mary (1485) ferch Hywel Fychan (1455) ap Hywel (1425) ap Gruffudd (1390) ap Jenkin (1360) ap Llewelyn (1330) ap Einion (1300) ap Celynin of Llwydiarth

APPENDIX II - Pedigree of the Pugh Family of Aberffrydlan
                                    1440  Ieuan of Aberffrydlan
                                      1470  Huw
         1st wife(a)  ==========Humphrey===========2nd wife
                _________l____________  Pugh  1505        l
                l                                      l                         l
1535  Humphrey (b)    1533  Thomas Pugh (c)  1545 John (d) 
                                1565  Humphrey Pugh
                                 1600  Thomas Pugh (e) 
                                1630  Humphrey Pugh (f)
                                 1662  Elisabeth Pugh (g)
          (source: Montgomeryshire Collections, Vol VIII, pp 49/50, with revisions) 
(a)  The pedigree conflates her husband and her son, and mentions only the name of the wife of the younger Hunphrey
(b)  He married Jane ferch Ieuan ap Morys ap Dafydd of unknown ancestry.  Their marriage covenants were dated 1553, but the date of the actual marriage is unknown
(c)  He married Catryn, daughter of Oliver Herbert of Machynlleth
(d)  He married Catryn, daughter of Edward Price of Meirionydd
(e)  He married, first, in 1626, Jane daughter of Ellis Vaughan of Meirionydd; and secondly, in 1633, Elisabeth ferch Maredudd ap Rhys of Darowen
(f)  He married, in 1660, Lowri daughter of Derwas Griffithes of Cemmaes.  Humphrey died in 1669 and his widow was yet alive in 1698
(g)  She was the heiress of Aberffrydlan, the eldest of 4 daughters.  She married Richard Owen of Peniarth and died in 1738.  Her only son, Lewis Owen, inherited Aberffrydlan

APPENDIX III - Some Marriages Between the Two Families:
            ABERFFRYDLAN FAMILY                        MATHAFARN FAMILY
                    1470  Huw ap Ieuan                         1460  Ieuan
                ___________l___________                              l
                l                                       l                              l
1505  Dafydd Llwyd           1505  Humphrey           1490  Huw
                l                                       l                 _______l______
                l                                       l                 l                      l 1525
   1535  John                                     l           Richard 1525      John
                l                                       l                 l                      l
   1565  Owain                      1545  John=====Elen 1555      Francis 1555
                l                                                                               l
  1600  Elisabeth==============================John 1590
      The marriage between Elisabeth ferch Owain and John ap Francis is cited in Dwnn i, 296; the marriage between John ap Humphrey and Elen ferch Richard is cited in Montgomeryshire Collections, Vol VIII, page 49