The Other Sir Roger of Powys

THE OTHER "SIR ROGER OF POWYS"

By Darrell Wolcott

The familiar man known as Roger of Powys was a son of Gronwy ap Tudor ap Rhys Sais II and held Whittington in Salop in the mid-twelfth century. He died about 1186 and had a brother named Jonas. They were half-brothers of the Peverel siblings which included Miletta who married Warin de Metz and gave birth to the first Fulk fitz Warin.

This Roger was followed by his son, Meurig, to whom King Henry II confirmed possession of Whittington.[1]

The medieval pedigrees[2] also claim Sir Roger of Powys had sons named Roger Fychan and Gronwy, that he was a Knight of Rhodes and married Sissely ferch Hwfa ap Iorwerth ap Gruffudd ap Ieuaf ap Ninniaw ap Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon. They further claim Roger divided his lands at Estwick between those two sons, with Gronwy also receiving a manor called Pentref Madog. The pedigrees claim his eldest son, Meurig, received Whittington.

Our work on this family indicates two wholly different men called Roger of Powys are rolled into one by the pedigrees. While both appear to have descended from Tudor Trevor, the second Roger (who lived over 100 years after the first) probably belongs to the family of Iddon ap Rhys Sais II who held lands at Dudleston north of Ellesmere. We have dated this later Roger by these marriage connections:

1095 Ninniaw ap Cynwrig

1130 Ieuaf Rhys Sais II 1115

l l

1165 Gruffudd Tudor 1145

l l

1200 Iorwerth Bleddyn 1175

l l

1230 Hwfa Owain 1205

l l

1260 Sissely===Sir Roger 1245 Iorwerth Fychan[3]

l l 1240

1275 Gronwy of Estwick Iorwerth Foel 1270

__________l_______ _____l_____

l l l l

1305 Llewelyn Ieuan 1310 Ednyfed Gam Gruffudd 1300

l l l 1305 l

1335 Llewelyn Fychan Llewelyn 1345 Llewelyn Madog Lloyd

l l l 1335 l 1330

1365 Gruffudd* Dafydd 1375 Madog Dafydd

l l l 1370 l 1360

1395 Llewelyn Ieuan 1410 Richard Madog

l l l 1405 l 1390

1425 Gruffudd l l Dafydd

l l l l 1420

1455 Efa===========Dafydd** 1440 John======Maud

l 1440 l 1450

1470 Philip Brid or Bride====================Alison 1475

1500 Margaret==James Eyton 1495

William Eyton*** 1525 (lv 1592)

James Eyton 1560

(also lv 1592)

*This Gruffudd is called "of Pentref Madog in Dudleston"

**This Dafydd is called "of Estwick"

***William provided the pedigree to Lewys Dwnn in 1592

Further confirmation of the chronology of the second man named Roger can be seen by another branch of his descendants:

Rhys Sais I 1025

Tudor 1055

__________l________

l l

Bleddyn 1085 Gronwy 1090

l l

Rhys Sais II 1115 Roger 1120

l (Whittington)

Tudor 1145

Bleddyn 1175

Owain 1205

1245 Sir Roger Cynwrig 1240

l l

1280 Roger Fychan Cynwrig Sais 1270

l l

1315 Maredudd Gwilym 1300

l l

1345 Gwerfyl=======Ieuan Foel[8] 1335

(Estwick)

Having placed the Roger of Estwick (now called Eastwick) chronologically as occurring over 100 years after the known era of the Roger who held Whittington, we turn our attention to his identification. The pedigree evidence[4] tells us that Dudleston had been the share inherited by Iddon ap Rhys Sais II (the latter born c. 1115), and we find a single son, Trahaearn, cited for Iddon. That man is credited with 4 sons who, together with their inheritance, were:

1. Morgan, who received Pentref Morgan

2. Heilyn, who received Pentref Heilyn

3. Hwfa, who received Plas Thomas

4. Cadifor, who received Cilhendref

These four brothers would have been born c. 1210/1215 or exactly the generation where one should expect to find the father of a Roger of Powys born c. 1245. We suspect there was a 5th brother[5] named Madog whose share of Trahaearn's lands was called Pentref Madog. Probably the name of a single manor, Pentref Madog and the surrounding land then called Estwick are ascribed to the Sir Roger of c. 1245 so we feel comfortable positing that he was the son of Madog ap Trahaearn ap Iddon.

Having now determined both by chronology and land holdings that the Roger of Whittington was father to Meurig (and his siblings Maredudd and Thomas) and that the Roger of Dudleston was father to Roger Fychan and Gronwy[6], the final question to be resolved is which man was a "Knight of Rhodes". Known as the Hospitallers of Jerusalem until 1309 when the order acquired the island of Rhodes, it appears that sometime between 1165 and 1187, Roger of Whittington donated land called Halston from his demense property to the Hospitallers on which they built a preceptory.[7] He also granted the tithes from Whittington to Halston, apparently for them providing a chaplain at Whittington Castle. Although it is possible the 13th century Roger of Dudleston was also a member of that order (his son Roger Fychan of Estwick would have been living when the name Knights of Rhodes was first used), it is more likely the "Sir" which prefixes the later Roger was earned militarily. Whether or not the earlier Roger of Whittington was a dedicated member of the religious and charitable order of Hospitallers, he may well have been given its honorary title of "Knight" for his financial support to them. And no sources have been seen to connect Roger of Dudleston to the Hospitallers.

NOTES:

[1] A comprehensive study of Roger of Powys was written by Frederick Suppe and published in The Welsh History Review, vol 21, June 2002, pp 1-23. He is also discussed by Joseph Morris in his article on the Fitz-Warine family published in Archaeologia Cambrensis, 1852, pp 282-291. Some of the genealogy is cited by J.Y.W. Lloyd in "History of Powys Fadog", vol iii, pp 381-384 and pp 401/402. Also see the paper elsewhere on this site entitled "The Mysterious Peverel Family".

[2] Dwnn i, 324 and Harleian Ms 4181

[3] Most pedigrees make this Iorwerth Fychan the son of Iorwerth Hen ap Owain, but both those men married ladies born c. 1235/1245. We believe they were brothers and the addition of Hen and Fychan to their names was required to distinguish one Iorwerth ap Owain from the other. While not common, several other cases where a man gave two sons the same name are found in both legal documents and pedigree material. One example is found in the paper "The Floruit of Einion ap Seisyll" elsewhere on this site

[4] Harlean Ms 4181; Lloyd's "History of Powys Fadog", vol iv pp 88-96

[5] A pedigree for the family of Vaughan of Plas Thomas was compiled in 1675 by John Salusbury (reproduced in "History of Powys Fadog" vol iv, pp 95) in which Hwfa was described as the fifth son of Trahaearn ap Iddon

[6] Frederick Suppe's article referenced in note 1 incorrectly charts as brothers the sons of both men named Roger, and would assign them all to Roger of Whittington. This even though he describes Roger son of Roger as "Estwick" and assigns him the son, Maredudd, who (from the marriage of his daughter) must have occurred c. 1315

[7] "House of Knights Hospitallers: Preceptory at Halston" from the Victorian County History of Shropshire, vol 2, pp 87/88

[8] This marriage is also cited in Dwnn i, 324