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Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
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Ancestors and Children of the Lord Rhys

                                 THE CLAN OF TUDOR TREVOR
                                         By Darrell Wolcott
         Seated on the northern march of Wales just south of Chester, this family represents a junior branch of the first Royal Dynasty of Powys.  While careless genealogists equate the Cadell who sits atop its pedigree with the fifth century Cadell Ddyrnllwg, this family actually split from the royal line about the start of the seventh century.[1]  We believe its Cadell was the "King Cadell" who fell at the Battle of Chester[2], probably a son of Cynan Garwyn and younger brother of Selyf. 
         The traditional history of Wales (a mixture of fact and legend) as it affects this family is outlined by Edward Hamer in his "A Parochial Account of Llangurig".[3]  The following statements are extracted from that account, with our comments in italics following each paragraph:
          Ynyr was Lord of Chirk, Whittington, Oswestry, Maelor Cymraeg and Maelor Saesnaeg in Powysland, being the son of Cadfarch ap Gwrgeneu.  In the year 870, he built the castle of Whittington.  By his wife Rhiengar, daughter and heiress of Lluddoca ap Caradog Freichfras, Lord of Hereford, Gloucester, Erging and Ewias, Ynyr had a son Tudor called Trevor for his birthplace. In 907, Tudor Trevor married Angharad, daughter of Hywel Dda.  He had three sons:
        (Our timeline for this family would place the birth of Ynyr at c. 870. He may have resided at Whittington but the castle was still over 150 years in the future for Wales.  The first stone castle at Whittington was built on the site of an earlier hill fort in the 13th century.  The Caradog Freichfras who was grandfather to Rheingar was the ninth century man of Rhos in north Wales, not the sixth century same-named man of Ewias[4].  We date the birth of Tudor Trevor c. 900 and his marriage would have occurred c. 928/930)  
   (1) Gronwy, who died in his father's lifetime, married Tangwystl, daughter of Dyfnwal ap Alan ap Alser ap Tudwal Gloff ap Rhodri Mawr, by whom he had an only daughter and heiress, Rhiengar [5] who succeeded to her grandfather's lands in Hereford, Gloucester, Erging and Ewias.  She married Cyhelin ap Ivor ap Seferus, Lord of Buillt, Radnor, Ceri, Maelienydd, Elfael and Cydewain.  By Cyhelin, she was the mother of Elystan Glodrydd, Prince of Fferllys.  He was born in 927 and was named after King Athelstan who was his godfather.  He was living in 1010 but slain in a civil broil in Montgomeryshire.
       (Tangwystl was the daughter of Dyfnwal ap Owain, King of Strathclyde [6].  As for her daughter, Gwen, since her father died in the lifetime of Tudor Trevor, she would inherit nothing from either man under Welsh law.  And Tudor Trevor did not hold any land south of Oswestry anyway[7].  Elystan Glodrydd was born near 990 long after the death of King Athelstan, and likely died nearer 1050/1060.)
    (2)  Lluddoca was Lord of Chirk, Whittington, Oswestry and Maelor Saesnaeg and died in 1037, leaving by his wife Angharad (daughter of Iago ap Idwal of north Wales) a son Llywarch, who by Lucy his wife, daughter of Gwerystan ap Gwaethfoed, Lord of Cibwyr in Gwent, had a son and heir, Ednyfed, who married Janet, daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn and was the father of Rhys Sais.
        (Lluddoca was likely born c. 935 and his obit is not recorded.  Angharad would have been a granddaughter of Idwal Foel, not a daughter of King Iago ap Idwal whose rule began in 1033.  The Lleuci who married Llywarch Gam was a daughter of Gwerystan, but he had no connection at all with lands in Gwent.  His home was probably Cwybr in Tegeingl[8].  The Sioned (Janet) who married Ednyfed was a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Dyngad ap Tudor Trevor, not Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn.[9]
    (3)  Dyngad, Lord of Maelor Cymraeg married Cecilia, daughter of Seferus ap Cadwr, Lord of Buillt and had a son, Rhiwallon who died in 1040 and left by his wife Letitia[10], daughter of Cadwalar ap Pereder Goch of Mon, a son Cynwrig who succeeded his father as Lord of Maelor Cynraeg.  Cynwrig was slain in 1074 during an incursion of the Danes into Maelor.  By his first wife Judith, daughter of Ifor Hen of Rhos, he had five sons:  Ninniaw, Ednyfed, Gruffudd, Bleddyn and Hoedliw.  Cynwrig married secondly Annesta, daughter of Idnerth Benfras, Lord of Maesbrook, by whom he had seven more sons: Dafydd, Hwfa, Llewelyn, Einion, Iorwerth, Ieuaf and Bledrws and one daughter, Jane who married Madog ap Cadwgan of Nannau and had issue a son Rhiwallon.
      (Rhiwallon ap Dyngad would date from c. 965 but his obit is not recorded. The lady mentioned as his wife, Letis,  was born c. 1145 and married a later Rhiwallon of this family. Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon ap Dyngad was born c. 995 and was definately not the man of that name reported slain in 1075 not in Maelor but in Lleyn (Gwynedd)[11]. The present Cynwrig did not marry Dyddgu (Judith) ferch Ifor Hen of Rhos; that lady dates from c. 1075 and married a later Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon. He likely did marry a daughter of Idnerth Benfras of Maesbrook[12], but their only known sons were Dafydd, Dyngad and Rhiwallon. The other sons listed in the account were children of much later men, as was the daughter Sian (Jane).
          Charts of this family's early generations would look like this:
                                          820  Rhodri Mawr
                                           851  Cadell            
                                         879  Hywel Dda            Owain  875       
                                                      l                         l
              900  Tudor Trevor====Angharad  915   Dyfnwal  905
                                             l                                 l
                               932  Gronwy[13]=======Tangwystl  947
                                                 970  Gwen===Cuhelyn ap Ifor
                                                                    l                       960
                                                   990  Elystan Glodrydd
                                         Rhodri Mawr  820
                                           Anarawd   850
                                         Idwal Foel  880
              900  Tudor Trevor     Iago   915         Gwaethfoed  915
                           l                    l                            l
              935  Llyddoca====Angharad  950      Gwerystan  955
                                     l                                      l
                        965  Llywarch Gam=========Lleuci  980
                                             995  Ednyfed===Sioned (next chart)
                                                                  l           1000
                                                   1025  Rhys Sais[14]


              Charts of other early families might be helpful to frame the chronology on which our birthdate estimates are based:
TEGONWY ap TEON of Cegidfa, Powys:
                                735  Tegonwy
                     l                                                        l
    765  Iorwerth Hirflawdd                                  Caenog  765
                     l                                                        l
          795  Idnerth                                               Corf  795
                     l                                                        l
         830  Gwenwyn                                           Ceido  825
                     l                                                       l
          865  Cadwr                                          Lles Llydog  855
                     l                                                       l
         900  Seferys                                    Gwynnog Farfsych  885
           ______l_________                                      l
           l                           l                                     l
 940 Sissely            930  Ifor                           Gwaethfoed  915
          =                          l                                      l
 930 Dyngad ap     960 Cuhelyn                        Gwerystan  955
      Tudor Trevor            =                                      l
                         970  Gwenllian                           Lleuci  980
                                vz Gronwy                             =                   
                            ap Tudor Trevor           965  Llywarch Gam ap
                                                                       Llyddoca ap
                                                                      Tudor Trevor
                             1005  Bleddyn
                              1035  Mael                              Cynan  1035
                                          l                                      l
                             1070  Peredur                        Gruffudd 1070    
                   ______________l___________                l
                   l                                            l                l
    1105  Cadwaladr                   1110  Angharad===Owain  1100
                   l                                                     l    Gwynedd
       1140  Letis                                  1127  Cynan
     1125  Rhiwallon
             ap Cynwrig,
             father of the 5th
             Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon
             of this line
         Note:  We did not carry this family back beyond the men cited in ABT 2g where Angharad ferch Peredur is called the mother of Cynan ap Owain Gwynedd, but it is an old line descended from Meirion ap Cunedda.  See the paper "Bradwen of Llys Bradwen in Meirionydd" at the link below:
          Just as earlier names were repeated in the family branch descended from Dyngad (in which three different men named Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon have been rolled into one by early historians), the same thing obscures the family descended from Llyddoca.  Rhys Sais of c. 1025 appears to have named sons Tudor and Elidyr (but probably not Iddon as many claim[16])  Tudor had sons, Bleddyn and Gronwy, while Bleddyn's son Rhys is also called Rhys Sais.  That man, born c. 1124, had sons Iddon, Tudor and Elidyr.  And both the latter men named a son the same as the earlier brothers: Bleddyn ap Tudor and Meilyr ap Elidyr.  In chart form, we find:
                                     1025  Rhys Sais I
                            l                                                  l
               1055  Tudor                                  1060  Elidyr
               _______l______               _____________l_______
               l                      l               l                  l                 l
  1085  Bleddyn  1090  Gronwy    Meilyr          Madog         Sandde 
               l                                      1090          1090             1095
               l                                      l
 1124  Rhys Sais II                  Gruffudd 1125
          l                                                      l                           l
      Tudor  1154                            1152  Elidyr           1153  Iddon
          l                                                      l
     Bleddyn  1185                          1180  Meilyr
                             l               l          l           l                l    
                       Cadwgan   Gruffudd  Madog  Iorwerth  Ednyfed
                          1210         1210     1215     1215       1220
       Rhys Sais of c. 1025 married his first cousin, Efa ferch Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon; Cynwrig was the brother of Rhys' mother, Sioned.  Tudor ap Rhys Sais married a Sioned ferch Rhiwallon.  Chronologically that lady may have been a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn[17] born c. 1065 or a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon ap Cynwrig ap Dyngad, a lady who would also occur near 1060.  If the latter, she would have been a first cousin of Tudor but original sources are lacking.  We prefer the first listed possibility.
        Bleddyn ap Tudor of c. 1085 married a lady born c. 1095, Annes ferch Llewelyn ap Idnerth ap Cadwgan ap Elystan (of Powys, not Elystan Glodrydd of Buellt and Fferlys)[18].  Bleddyn's brother Gronwy was the father of Sir Roger and Jonas having wed the mother of three Peverel siblings.[19]  And Bleddyn began a repeating naming cycle by calling a son Rhys known as Rhys Sais II.  That man married a granddaughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr, Efa ferch Gruffudd ap Rhys born c. 1130.  Rhys Sais II of c. 1124 named sons Tudor,  Elidyr and Iddon.  This Tudor had a Bleddyn while his brother Elidyr named a son Meilyr.  Although Meilyr followed his earlier namesake by calling one son Gruffudd, his eldest son was the Cadwgan who is called Lord of Eyton.  Fortunately, the Bleddyn ap Tudor of c. 1185 did not continue the naming repetition, calling his only known son Owain.
         Due to the proximity of their lands to the Saxon kingdom of Mercia, the family descended from Llyddoca ap Tudor Trevor had established amicable relations with their neighbor to the east; it is believed the first Rhys Sais became fluent in the Saxon language and served the Earl of Mercia as latimer or interpretor. Thus his nickname "Rhys the Englishman". Apparently his son Tudor and grandson Bleddyn served in the same capacity for the Norman Marcher Lords, the Earls of Montgomery.  It was during the lifetime of the first Rhys Sais that the majority of his lands (all but Nanheudwy which, among his holdings, lay the furthest west) were detached from Powys to become a part of the Norman shire Salop (now Shropshire). 

[1] HLG 12 and ABT 9b make Tudor Trevor "ap Ynyr ap Cadfarch ap Gwrgeneu ap Gwaeddgar ap Bywyn ap Biordderch ap Gwriawn ap Gywnnan ap Gwnfyw Frych ap Cadell" and continues with the ancestry of Cadell Ddyrnllwg of c. 380.  But the Cadell in this list would occur c. 580.
[2] The Annals of Inisfallen, an 11th century Irish source, reports the Battle of Chester under the date 614 and says both Selyf ap Cynan "king of the Britons" and "king Cadell" were killed.  The Welsh Annales Cambriae record of the battle notes the death of Selyf but not of Cadell.  We suggest Selyf was the Welsh commander at the battle, while Cadell was "king" of a subordinate territory...probably of the lands at the site of the battle.  Both men would date from c. 575/580.
[3] Montgomeryshire Collections, vol ii, pp 225-300
[4] For a discussion of the two different men called Caradog Freichfras, see the paper on this site entitled "Ynyr Gwent and Caradog Freich Fras" at the link below:
[5] Hamer errs here, Rhiengar was the name of Tudor Trefor's mother.  The daughter of Gronwy ap Tudor Trefor and Tangwystl ferch Dyfnwal is cited as "Gwen" in Pen 138, 359 and Pen 142, 108.  
[6] Dwnn ii, 307 cites "Tangwystl ferch Dyfnwal" but does not mention her further ancestry; see the paper on this site entitled "Refugees From Strathclyde Come to Gwynedd" at the following link:
[7] The claim that this granddaughter of Tudor Trevor inherited his lands around Hereford, Gloucester and Ewias was apparently concocted to explain why no such holdings are found among his descendants.  But the mother of Tudor Trevor wasn't descended from the Caradog Freich Fras who did hold land in those areas; any land she may have inherited would have been in far north Wales.
[8] The likely home of Gwerystan is discussed in the paper "Ithel of Bryn in Powys" at the link below:
[9] Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn was born to Cynfyn and Angharad ferch Maredudd shortly after the 1023 death of her first husband.  No daughter of his could have married an Ednyfed born c. 995 or have borne Rhys Sais near 1025.
[10] Hamer calls the lady "Letitia" but Pen 287, 1 cites her as "Letis"
[11] The Welsh Chronicles report for 1075 says "Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon was slain by the men of Gwynedd" while the author of "Historia Gruffudd ap Cynan" asserts that Cynwrig was a co-usurper of Gwynedd with Trahaearn ap Caradog and was slain in Lleyn by men loyal to Gruffudd. Those historians who equate that Cynwrig with the son of Rhiwallon ap Dyngad would have us believe a man about 80 years old had been selected as a co-ruler of Gwynedd following the death of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn. Others would identify the 1075 Cynwrig as a son of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn and have us believe it was a lad about 21 years old who ruled in Lleyn.  Our choice for his identification is a son of Rhiwallon ap Gwyn and first cousin of his co-ruler Trahaearn ap Caradog ap Gwyn.
[12] A possible identification and dating of this man is the subject of the paper entitled "Idnerth Benfras of Maesbrook" at the link below:
[13]  For the possibility this Gronwy had a base son by a Saxon lady, see the paper entitled "The Mysterious Peverel Family" at the link below:
[14]  This man was father to the "Tuder Walensis" cited in the 1086 Domesday Book as the holder of land in Whittington under Earl Roger de Montgomery
[15]  J.Y.W. Lloyd's "History of Powys Fadog" vol 2, pp 117 says this marriage is cited in his source manuscripts, which he identifies as the Cae Cyriog Ms and Harleian Ms 4181.  Our dating of Ifor Hen to c. 1050 relies on conjecture as to who was his father.  But as Lord of Rhos, we place him two generations after Gwrydr Goch ap Heilig; Gwyrdr Goch was born c. 980 and inherited Uwch Dulas in Rhos and other land in Rhufoniog while his brother received Is Dulas in Rhos.  
[16] Under the 1081 entry in the Brut, we are told that Gwrgeneu ap Seisyll was slain by "the sons of Rhys Sais".  In his "History of Powys Fadog, vol ii, pp 152, Lloyd claims those sons were Elidyr, Tudor and Iddon.  There is no evidence the sons living in 1081 had a brother named Iddon; the Iddon ap Rhys Sais found in the old pedigrees dates from c. 1153.  Rhys Sais II of c. 1124 is the only man of that name known to have had sons named Elidyr, Tudor and Iddon. 
[17] Burke's "Landed Gentry", under the family of Lloyd-Davis of Whittington, identifies the wife of Tudor as Janet (Sioned) daughter and co-heir of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn.  We see no good reason to seek a different Rhiwallon as her father.
[18] Dwnn ii, 307; Pen. 139(2), 411  See this Elystan of c. 955 in the paper "The Unofficial History of Elystan of Powys" at the link below:
[19] op cit  note 11