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Maredudd ap Owain, King of Deheubarth
Sandde Hardd of Mortyn
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Cowryd ap Cadfan of Dyffryn Clwyd
Osbwrn Wyddel of Cors Gedol
Bradwen of Llys Bradwen in Meirionydd
Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
Sir Aaron ap Rhys
Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?
Ifor Bach, Lord of Senghenydd
Ancestors and Children of the Lord Rhys

                                             By Darrell Wolcott
          With a name like Drymbenog, it felt safe to believe this son of Maenyrch ap Dryffin could only be a younger brother of Bleddyn ap Maenyrch, king of Brycheiniog until his death in 1093.  Bartrum charted a single man of this name [1] but gave him two wives, supposedly of the same generation.  Yet, as we scan the first 3 generations of his descendants, we find folks charted as "siblings" and "wives" born in different generations than their other siblings or husbands.

          In our first paper in this series on Brychieniog men [2], we identified a second Maenyrch ap Dryffin, born c. 1075, as the father of Madog.  Our follow-up paper [3] then identified two brothers of this c. 1105 Madog as Bleddyn and Drymbenog, the latter cited as the father of the c. 1145 Ithel Gam. 
          A younger brother of King Bleddyn ap Maenyrch, the earliest Drymbenog ap Maenyrch was born c. 1050 and resided in Cantref Selyf in the northern part of Brycheiniog.  There is no evidence that he joined with his brother in the 1093 battle where Bleddyn, and his wife's brother Rhys ap Tewdwr, fell. We believe it is quite likely that the Norman conqueror, Sir Bernard Newmarch, had both conquered and pacified a large part of Brycheiniog some time prior to 1093.  The battle that year, we suggest, was Bleddyn's final attempt to salvage something for himself, since many of his former supporters had already been peeled away.
          Another man who survived, probably by staying away from that final battle, was Eidio Wyllt. [4] He was, if you count in-laws, a double nephew of Bleddyn.  His mother was Nest ferch Tewdwr, a sister of Bleddyn's wife.  He had married a daughter of Drymbenog, Bleddyn's brother. He was clearly a nephew of Rhys ap Tewdwr, the brother of his mother.  We suggest that both Drymbenog and Eidio Wyllt had already given their fealty to Newmarch, and had been permitted to retain the bulk of their lands.  Drymbenog had been Lord of Cantref Selyf.

                                            1015  Maenyrch ap Dryffin
                             l                                l                               l
            1045  King Bleddyn    1050  Drymbenog          1047  Dryffin
                                                              l                               l
                                          1080  Moriddig Warwyn   1075  Maenyrch
                                                                              1110  Drymbenog
                                                                                1140  Moriddig 
          Two citations found in Dwnn's "Visitations in Wales" [5] assert that:
          "Mother of Moriddig Warwyn ap Drymbenog was Gladys Ddu ferch Rhys ap Tewdrw Mawr; others say that Nest ferch Iestyn ap Gwrgan was the mother of Moriddig".
          In fact, none of the "others" called this second lady "Nest" but all did say such a lady was the mother of Moriddig.  A plurality called the lady "Gwenllian" ferch Iestyn ap Gwrgan. [6]
          Gwladys Ddu ferch Rhys ap Tewdwr Mawr (a first-cousin to King Rhys ap Tewdwr) was born c. 1065 and fits well as a wife of the c. 1050 Drymbenog and as the mother of Moriddig Warwyn, born c. 1080.  A daughter, of whatever name, of the Iestyn ap Gwrgan who was contemporary with the c. 1050 Drymbenog, would have had to been born no later than 1065 to be identified as a wife of that Drymbenog.  We reject that identification since it requires Iestyn to have sired the daughter at about age 20.
          We would identify Gwenllian ferch Iestyn as a daughter of the c. 1075 Iestyn ap Gwrgan ap Ithel Ddu, she born c. 1120 and she married the Drymbenog ap Maenyrch born c. 1110.  We also believe she bore a son named Moriddog about 1140. That Dwnn pedigree we quoted above questioned who was really the mother of Moriddig ap Drymbenog.  In fact both ladies were, since these were two different men named Drymbenog and two different men named Moriddig.

          The earliest Drymbenog had, in addition to Moriddig Warwyn, a son named Cadwgan.   Born c. 1085, he was the ancestor of Rhydderch Ddu ap Dafydd. [7] Beside the daughter, Elinor, who married Madog aka Eidio Wyllt, [8] Drymbenog had a daughter named Arddun. Born c. 1085, she married Rhys (1085) ap Hoedliw (1055) ap Cadwgan (1020) ap Elystan Glodrydd (990). [9] He did NOT have a son named Ithel Gam.
          The later Drymbenog had sons Moriddig and Ithel Gam, but no known daughters.


(a) This Drymbenog married Gwladys Ddu, who is called the mother of Moriddig Warwyn. [10] This is the Drymbenog ap Maenyrch who had brothers Bleddyn, Dryffin and Rhiwallon.
(b)  Moriddig Warwyn had, in addition to a son, Llewelyn, 3 daughters: (1) Arianwen (1110)  married Madog (1098) ap Maredsudd (1065) ap Bleddyn, king of Powys [11]; (2) Ann (1115) married Idris (1105) ap Genillin (1075) ap Rhys Goch (1045) ap Ifor (1010) [12]; and (3) Arddun (1115) married Cadian (1100) ap Cadfael (1070) ap Matthew Hen (1040) ap Brochwel III ap Aeddan III of Powys. [13]
(c) Cadwgan (ancestor of Rhydderch Ddu #1) was a brother of Moriddig Warwyn. [14] Sisters Arddun and Elen are discussed and dated in the text of this paper under Children of Drymbenog. Moriddig Warwyn did NOT have a brother named Ithel Gam.
(d)  This Llewelyn married Sion ferch Genillin. [15] The grandfather of this "Joan" was Rhys Goch ap Maenyrch, who was Lord of Ystrad Yw
(e)  Gwenllian is the daughter of Iestyn ap Gwrgan who is cited as having been married to Drymbenog ap Maenyrch and as being the mother of a son named Moriddig, which was discussed earlier in this paper
(f)  This "Jane" married Aeddan (1150) ap Seisyll (1120) ap Dyfnwal (1090) ap Caradog (1060) ap Ynyr Gwent (1030) [16]
(g)  These 4 sons were Gwgan, Gwrgeneu, Seisyll and Cynharwy.  Bartrum's charts conflate them with 4 same-named sons of the c. 1180 Llewelyn ap Moriddig ap Drymbenog.
(h)  This Cadwgan married Marged ferch Lord Rhys [17], a sister of Elinor mentioned in note (j) below.  This Cadwgan did NOT have a son named Dafydd
(j)  All citations, which identify a wife for Moriddig ap Drymbenog ap Maenyrch, call the lady Elinor, daughter of Lord Rhys, [18]
(k)  No wife is cited for this Llewelyn ap Moriddig
(m) An unnamed daughter (1215) of Llewelyn ap Moriddig is cited as having married Rhiryd (1205) ap Seisyll (1175) ap Hwefrig (1140) ap Einion (1095) ap Owain (1060) ap Cadwgan (1020) ap Elystan Glodrydd (990) [19]
(n)  Llewelyn had 4 other sons, Gwgan, Gwrgeneu, Seisyll and Cynharwy. See note (g) above
          The two cousin lines who had, for 5 generations, produced a string of same-named sons, outdid themselves beginning in the 6th generation.  Rather than continuing with a single samed-named son each, both men named Llewelyn ap Moriddig gave 4 sons the same 4 names, all of which continued the copy-cat naming pattern.

          This pair of men each named a son Owain, but those men terminated the traditional pattern when the earlier Owain named his sons Ieuan and Rhys, while the later Owain named an only son Madog:
                 1150  Gwrgeneu ap Llewelyn
                    l                        l                         l
     1190  Llewelyn     1185  Owain     1190  Gwrgeneu
                            _________l_______        Fychan
                            l                             l
               1215  Rhys (a)          1220  Ieuan              1205  Gwrgeneu ap Llewelyn
                                                                                             1240  Owain
                                                                                             1270  Madog
 (a)  The Rhys ap Owain on Bartrum's chart "Drymbenog 9" was actually Rhys (1375) ap Owain (1340) ap Thomas (1310) ap Dafydd (1280) ap Gruffudd (1245) ap Rhys (1215) ap Owain (1185).  He was the father of Gruffudd (1405) father of Dafydd (1435) father of Thomas (1465) father of Nest (1495) who married Morgan (1480) ap Trahaearn (1440) ap Dafydd (1405)
          As the ancestor of the c. 1414 Sir Roger Vaughan of Tretower whose mother was Gwladys Duu ferch Sir Dafydd Gam, the earlier Seisyll was probably the best-known son of Llewelyn ap Moriddig.  He and his later namesake both named a son Hywel, but neither of those sons continued the  family's copy-cat naming tradition.
                     1145  Seisyll ap Llewelyn (a)
                     l                                l                         
       1180  Hywel (b)         1178  Elisabeth (c)
       1215  Ieuan                                                   1205  Seisyll ap Llewelyn
                                                                          l                                   l       
                                                             1235  Hywel  (d)        1235  Madog Gam
                                                                no known sons
  (a)  Married a daughter (1165) ferch Gruffudd (1135) ap Ifor Bach (1105) ap Meurig (1075) ap Cadifor (1035) ap Cydrich (1005) ap Gwaithfoed of Ystrad Tywy (975) [20]
  (b)  Married Gwenllian (1195) ferch Maredudd (1165) ap Caradog (1135) ap Iestyn (1105) ap Gwrgan (1075) ap Ithel Fychan (1045) ap Ithel Ddu (1012) ap Ithel (980) [21]
  (c)  Married Sir Elidyr Ddu (1160) ap Llywarch (1130) ap Cynhaethwy (1100) ap Gwrwared (1070) ap Seisyllt (1040)ap Rhun (1010) ap Llywarch (975) ap Rhiryd (940) ap Mor (910) ap Ynyr (880) ap Pasgen (850) ap Urien (820) [22]
  (d)  Married Gwladys (1235) ferch Morgan Fychan (1195) ap Morgan Gam (1165) ap Morgan (1135) ap Caradog (1105) ap Iestyn (1075) ap Gwrgan (1042) ap Ithel Ddu (1012) [23]
          The men named Cynharwy ap Llewelyn each had sons named Owain, each of whom named sons Gwilym and Owain Fychan, and each of those men extended the same-name sequence yet another generation:
               1150  Cynharwy ap Llewelyn (a)
                          1180  Owain (b)
               l                                  l                 1210  Cynharwy ap Llewelyn
1215  Gwilym           1210  Owain Fychan                               l
              l                                   l                           1240  Owain (e)
 1245  Ieuan (c)             1245  Dafydd (d)               ________l_________
              l                                                             l                               l
1275  daughter (f)                                   1275  Gwilym          1270  Owain Fychan
                                                                            l                               l
                                                               1305  Ieuan              1300  Dafydd (g)
                                                             1340  Gruffudd
                                                             1370  Thomas
                                                              1400  Marged (h)
  (a) He married Jane (1160) daughter of Miles Pitcher II (1130) ap Sir Miles Pitcher (1095) ap Sir Pitcher/Picard (1065), [24] the latter being a knight serving under Sir Bernard Newmarch in 1093
  (b) He married Sybil (1185) daughter of William Gunter III (1150) ap William Gunter II (1120) ap Sir William Gunter (1093) ap Sir Peter Gunter (1060), [25] the latter being another knight serving with Sir Bernard Newmarch
  (c) He married Lleuci Fychan (1255) ferch Madog (1225) ap Gwrgeneu Fychan (1190) ap Gwrgeneu (1150) ap Llewelyn (1115), [26] the lady being his 3rd cousin
  (d) He married Joan (1260) ferch Madog (1230) ap Hywel Felyn (1200) ap Hywel (1170) ap Gruffudd (1135) ap Ifor Bach (1105) [27]
  (e) He married a daughter (1240) ferch Llewelyn (1205) ap Dafydd (1170) ap Rhys Fychan (1130), [28] the latter being a younger brother of Lord Rhys
  (f) She married Hywel Fwya (1265) ap Trahaearn (1230) ap Ieuan (1200) ap Meurig (1170) ap Cynider (1140) ap Ithel (1110) ap Caradog (1080) ap Bleddyn (1045) ap Maenyrch (1015) [29]
  (g) He had a daughter, Goleuddydd (1335) who married Rhys Llwyd (1320) ap Adda (1290) ap Rhys (1255) ap Einion Sais (1225) [30]
  (h) She married Thomas (1385) ap Rhys (1350) ap Dafydd (1320) ap Thomas (1290) ap Dafydd (1255) ap Rhys (1225) ap Hywel Fychan (1195) ap Hywel (1165) ap Trahaearn (1135) ap Gwgan (1105) ap Gwgan Blaidd Gwyrdd (1075) ap Bleddyn (1045) ap Maenyrch (1115) [31]
         The two men named Gwgan ap Llewelyn not only extended the same-named-sons tradition for another 5 generations, but created some new same-named cousin lines of their own.  In order to discuss several different problems with Bartrum's charts of this family, we will require a whole new paper. [32]

[1]  Peter C Bartrum "Welsh Genealogies AD300-1400", vol 2. chart "Drymbenog 1"
[2]  See our paper "Welshmen Named Maemnyrch" at the link below:
[3]  See our paper "Bleddyn ap Maenyrch. King of Brycheiniog" at the link below:
[4]  See our paper "Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?" at the link below:
[5]  Dwnn ii, 24 and 49
[6]  Harl 2414, 21; Harl 5835, 46: and LB 111; two others call the lady "Arddun"
[7]  See our paper "Rhydderch Ddu of Tal-y-Lynn" at the lionk below:"
[8]  Dwnn i, 224; LB 89
[9]  Harl 1973, 12
[10] Dwnn ii, 24 & 49
[11] Harl 2289, 172
[12] Bradney, "History of Monmouthshire". Vol 1(2b), 338
[13] Dwnn i, 302
[14] Dwnn i, 151 & 205
[15] Harl 2414, 21; Harl 2300(2), 115 & 139
[16] LB 10 as "Arthan"; LB 67 as "Arthen"
[17] Harl 1975, 46
[18] Haarl 2414, 21 and Harl 2300(2), 116 call the lady "Elinor".  Harl 3525, 82 cites her as an unnamed daughter of Lord Rhys
[19] Glam 129 = Golden Grove Ms page 567
[20] Harl 2414, 41
[21] LB 111
[22] Dwnn i, 131 & 210
[23] Harl 2414, 21
[24] Protheroe IV, 233
[25] Harl 2291(2), 104
[26] Harl 5835. 80
[27] Harl 2300(2), 115
[28] Harl 3525, 80
[29] Pen 128, 789a
[30] Dwnn ii, 26 & 27; LB 264
[31] Harl 2289. 192
[32] See our paper "Gwgan ap Llewelyn ap Moriddig" at the link below: